RAIDS (which ones do people like?)

Flame Hardware Questions
41

My OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad’s RAID controller failed many years ago and caused me a massive data loss. I have not that much trust in OWC’s RAID solutions since then. However, I still use their RAM modules and an NVMe.

For framestore and footage of the actual project, I use a 16 TB OWC Accelsior NVMe. Alongside the Flame’s projects folder, all the data on the NVMe is backed up to a Pegasus R6 set to RAID5 mode.

For exports, Batch scripts, and other non-Flame files, I use a 16-bay Synology NAS with 10 gig connection set to RAID10. All the data on the primary NAS is backed up in multi-version mode to a secondary, 12-bay RAID6 NAS with compressed disks via a 2x1 gig bounded Ethernet connection.

This setup has served me for years now without a single byte of data loss and impressive speed.

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42

Thank you. Yes I’ve watch your login live many times it’s very helpful. Seems to be so many options and everyone has different needs.

I’ll sort something out

Cheers

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43

For sure! Keep in mind you can start small with just an external drive or two, but working up to having two local copies and an offsite is good practice.

44

You could use one of these as a “cheapish” and portable option for your framestore:

I have actually gone for this with 4TB nvme (2 x OWC U.2 Shuttle with OWC Aura Pro 2.0TB easily expandable) storage for my framestore and 4x8TB HDD’s for my Storage and archive drive. I just loved how flexible and adaptable this unit is.

45

It’s about time to step into the storage game.
Since I plan to invest into framestore/storage for the first time I’m looking for the best bang for the bucks.

Actually the OWC Thunderblade Flex 8 seems very impressive and just right for my needs. Nearly to good to be true.

With an iMac Pro, I like the idea of having a fast framestore and data storage in one enclosure and connected by one cable. Also the extra PCI slot and the docking ports seems promising.

Since I’m located in Germany I only have access to only the Flex8 enclosure and need to equipt eveything on my own. MacSales does deliver to Germany but delivery fees are quite high and I think I can save some money by DIY.

My idea would be:
Framestore: 4x Samsung 980 Pro NVME M.2 2TB in IcyDocks U.2 adapters in the top four bays as RAID 0
Storage: 4x WD Red Pro SATA III 14TB in the other four bays as RAID 5

I’m wondering if the 980 Pros are a bit overkill, since OWC claims a maximum speed of 2,750MB/s.
And how about the speeds when using both NMVE and HDD Raids simultaneously over one Thunderbold 3 connection? Doesn’t they slow down each other?

Also how’s your backup plan if Flex8 goes wasted eg. with an issue of the power supply? Do you sync all your data to a second Raid or even second Flex8?

How’s your experience so far? @RichG @Brooks

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46

Hi Chris,

I’ve been looking into new storage also and while the Flex 8 looks nice, I’d be hesitant for the same issues you brought up (single point of failure, read and write through a single cable, etc).

A small 6-8 drive NAS from Qnap or Synology isn’t that much more and seems more flexible to me. With more drive bays you could buy smaller drives (less $$$) while getting more throughput.

I’ve used this small NVME enclosure for my framestore the last year without any problems.

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47

I second @Jason_Kalinoski recommendation for the OWC Express 4M2. I’ve had mine since December 2019. No problems yet.

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48

Whilst I don’t own a Flex, my vote would be skip the PCIe Gen 4 stuff and go with the Gen 3. Over thunderbolt I just don’t think it’s worth it.

My vote would also to be diversify and not have every kind of data you have to be on one device. It’s super convenient to have everything in one place. It’s super scary to have everything in one place.

If I was in the iMac ecosystem, I’d find something nvme/thunderbolt for fast storage, and I’d go NAS for slow storage.

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49

So months later. I’m not un-happy with it. My Read and write speeds on the flex haven’t gotten any better. Actually my write just various depending on which version of OS and Softraid I’m using.

I will say, that personally, I’m not becoming a fan of the Softraid program. It requires constant updates. They seem to be really slow in adopting the versions of Mac OS. So if you are not cafeful, you can do an upgrade and not be able to use your raid drive.

But also my priorities have shifted. I’m not traveling anywhere anymore. That means I’m not getting any of the extra benefits I was going to get out of it. (like extra card slots and what not).

So I’m feeling okay about my purchase. I sorta wish I had a hardware raid, but… the price point of the flex was too good.

I do love my fast storage thou. I have a 4tb nvme raid drive that is backed up every night. The nvme raid is worth it’s weight in gold. But, since you are thunderbolt only, I don’t know if you will see any huge gains.

Also, to answer your question, yes you will take a performance hit on the fast storage and data storage if you use both at the same time (same bus). The best way to set up you externals on iMac Pro, is to have each hard drive on a different bus. https://softron.zendesk.com/hc/article_attachments/360006297994/image.png

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I currently don’t back up my Flex 8. But I do put footage that needs to not be lost on it, and a another 8tb hard drive. I try to make sure I don’t have one source of failure. I also keep a spare drive for the FLEX 8 on hand. So I can rebuild it if there is a problem. (It’s in raid 5 at the moment, I’ve been thinking about switching to raid 6).

My NVME 4tb raid 0 gets daily backups.

let me know if you have any other questions.

Oh, I do like the fact the Flex 8 can power my laptop, thru a thunderbolt cable, and I have set up a thunderbridge. It transfers much faster than wifi and Ethernet.

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50

Thanks everyone!

I think I’ll go for two seperate drives now.
With Flex8 the chance of single point of failure and that both raids share the same bandwith doesn’t feel right - at least for now and as a single option.

But in terms of budget I’d stick to OWC.
Thunderblade 4 TB3 as main storage and Express 4M2 as framestore.
Using both TB buses on iMac Pro.

That SoftRAID doesn’t adapt to newer OS that fast isn’t a big deal for me, since I want to run different Flame Versions. Post houses aren’t that fast up-to-date therefore I want to stay compatible in a reasonable manner.

The last unknown factor for me is how much CPU performance will be captured by SoftRAID. I hope, that with the 10-core Xeon it doesn’t have that much impact.

Honestly I’d actually like to go with Promise as a hardware RAID for main storage, but can’t find an empty enclosure and the preconfigured ones are quite expensive in comparison with the OWC. Maybe that would be a future invest.

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51

So 2023, where are we at with external Framestores for Mac? Are we RAIDing SSD as 5 or 10? Or just buying cheaper hard drive backups and going HAM?

Just thinking about swapping a cheesegater with internal Pegasus 4 to something more mobile.

52

I’ve got a nas on 10gigE, and a 4-bay m2 drive on Thunderbolt 3. I’ve got them both Raid 10 because a friend convinced me that the time lost repairing Raid 5 is more costly than a hard drive or two.

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53

After reading 300 comments and scouring the internet I’m even more in flux but seems these are consensus without breaking the bank:

OWC 16TB Thunderblade: small and portable. Sexy. A little pricier
OWC 16TB Mercury Pro U.2: seem several of you like this fellow
OWC Express 42M: just need to pick our own memory sticks

Or ditch portability and get a 48tb Thuderbay with HDD. But… maybe just as a backup drive that sits at home.

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54

Except there is no time lost rebuilding RAID, as the whole point is no downtime no data loss. And especially with NVMe drives that can push 3-6 GB/s. Let’s assume you have 4x4TB drives in a RAID5. Each drive can read/write at 3GB/s. That is a whopping 22 minutes to read the whole disk. Let’s say there is an in-effeciency in that process and its down to 1GB/s, your looking at a little over an hour, and that whole process happens in the background, transparently. Even drop that to 500MB/s and it’s still only 2.25 hours, and you can be working the whole time.

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55

So you’re saying Raid 5 is the way to go? My whole setup is software raid, is that a factor?

I’m just a reed in the proverbial winds of understanding and appreciate insight.

56

That is what I would do in that situation. But we don’t use macOS.

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57

macOS supports RAID 1, 0 and 10 out of the box. For RAID 5 you’ll need to use SoftRAID, which may have come with a drive from OWC. I know they actively maintain SoftRAID but since it is a low level thing, it is one to watch out for when upgrading major system versions or if you need to move your enclosure to another workstation.

58

Has anyone ever had a SSD raid fail and needed a rebuild? I’ll buy an extra NVME stick, but I would be worried if one fails the rest are suspect. Buy a new RAID and copy everything over.