Understanding how Flare handles files

Flame Flame Questions
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Hey there,

I’m having a blast with my first client project using my new Flare. I’m really enjoying my work time, especially the ability to check my render in real-time inside the Flare timeline after each render. That’s a huge game-changer for me! From there, I can spot any issues right away.

I’m starting to grasp the basics of GmaskTracer and other tools, but there’s one thing I’m struggling with. I’ve asked multiple times in the Discord channel, but I thought it would be better to ask here since Forum is a more permanent place where anyone with similar questions can find answers.

So, here’s the deal: I’ve done multiple comps (batch), and all of them are currently staying on my DESKTOP. I’m not sure how to manage them so I could have peace of mind as those are not saved like Nuke or any traditional kind of file in way of saving multiple versions I can find easily.

Basically all my current comps are in first iterations (I haven’t pressed ITERATE button yet). After client review I will press ITERATE to make v002 from current ones and continue my progress. That is basically version up in any workflow where you want to keep older version so you can go back, right? And those are saved elsewhere from original, not sure where.

I am kind of getting this, but it is still somewhere in managed file system which is not traditional system I have used to.

What will happen if one day my Flare won’t open my project, for what ever reason?

Managed file system is totally alien to me. If I have traditional comp_v001.file saved into my NAS, it will be backup each time my backup system is scheduled.

One user suggested to copy my batch into Library, but that is also inside managed file system so it is basically doing iterate without pressing iterate button as current state copy, right?

Another user suggested saving batches separately into NAS, but one mentioned some kind of issue relating that… Honestly I am not sure what.

I was thinking when I set PROJECT HOME and SETUP when I created the project, it is where all my files are stored, but as I am checking there now, I cannot find obvious batch file there. What I see batch relating is only setup I have saved by dragging node setup to user or project bin, but no sh010, sh020 kind of prefixed file or folder which my Bach group name was.

Catalog folder is full of unreadable files and folders.

So this is my current state. It is all good until it isn’t and that is what I am afraid of. Not understanding basic data management of my work files.

I’m a bit lost right now, but I really appreciate your help and I am sure it isn’t that complicated and at some point I will understand it with your help.

Best, Juha

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Theres no definitive answer to this and you’ll probably get as many answers as flame ops you ask. But the main thing is, unless you write your comp out to a server / external drive, if your flare goes down, you wont be able to access your comps. The storage in Flame / Flare is bespoke and not browsable from anywhere else, (other than another Flame)

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Flame has two “render” nodes in Batch. Render will make a clip inside the flame managed filesystem. The Write node will make an image sequence at the location of your choosing, similar to Nuke or After Effects.

Similarly, there are a few ways to save a batch, and most of us use them in tandem.

Meta(windows key)-W will save your batch to the flame library of your choosing. Hitting the “save” button inside of batch allows you to write out the setup to any location your flame can see, again similar to saving in other comparable apps.

I could write an essay on how and why I use each of these, but those are the basics.

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Hi,

Thanks for your message.

Render and Write nodes are something I have learned to understand. As I usually need Prores as my delivery format, I have now rendered out using RENDER into my managed file system and then exported from Media panel. After export I have deleted that file made by RENDER. Not sure if deleting from media panel will delete also from managed file system to save my space…

Funny thing with Batch save is that I have never saved yet as closing Flare and reopening it later, my comps are still there inside project. Obviously I have to make some kind of backup to make sure it is not the only place to keep project if something happens.

One user suggested to backup using separate app which will copy my project folder into NAS daily without MEDIA folder as if I have understand correctly, that is the place where all CACHES are stored. As long as I keep reading files from outside using IMPORT node, if MEDIA folder is emptied, that shouldn’t affect anyway, am I right?

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I think you will find that majority will use the Write note, specifically it’s OpenClip flavor for exports from batch. Those can go into a project folder hierarchy, and it’s easy to version them (in sync with iterations or separate). While it can only do image sequences, for most workflows an image sequence is preferred anyways. A ProRes may only come up as a client delivery.

As we speak I’m doing the same. I have a write node setup which I saved to my user bin, which is all pre-configured for the end of a batch to write a versioned EXR sequence.

And now I need to export for the client after sign-off. I just create a Render node (also preconfigured via User bin) which then can be exported as ProRes 4444 XQ or whatever for the client as an additional output.

That way you always have your EXR sequences in their full beauty in your project archived, and then you can have a separate folder of .mov files from the client deliverables. If you need to go back, you will still have your EXR sequences.

Also, if you use OpenClips (highly recommend), a while ago I wrote a python script which is available in the Logik Portal that allows you to purge individual or all but the current version of these EXR sequences if you need to clean up disk space for a little house keeping.

But as @paul_round pointed out, you will get as many different answers as there are Flame users in this forum. You have to find whatever works for you. The above is just something that happens to work for me under similar circumstances.

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Hello @Juha!

Happy to hear you are having fun using Flare.

Flare/Flame/Flame Assist have different ways to manage content created on the Desktop as what you know from Nuke or other shot based environments where you need to save a project / scene file to disk to ensure it is really saved. The Desktop & Libraries are automatically saved for you and managed by the application with back-up mechanism in case your get corruption (i.e you get a power shutdown while working). The Desktop / Library data is saved in the Catalog folder of the project and there is also backups in the Catalog_AUTO_BACKUP. These file are internal to the application and are not meant to be used by end users unless there is a corruption of Workspace, Library or Desktop.

As other have replied, it is possible to save a setup files for your work in Batch and this file is human readable and can be move to another workstation if need be.

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Yes, I happily receive multiple options from many users as only then I know what are my options.

I have no experience or knowledge about OpenClip. I need to read about it to understand what it is and if that is something I could use as my workflow.

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Thank you so much for clarifying how things are done with Flame / Flare. I really have to change way of thinking with this application.

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OpenClip is a container for a versioned EXR sequence. The actual OpenClip is an XML file that has metadata about the EXR sequence versions.

Instead of importing a specific EXR sequence, you can instead import the OpenClip XML file as a container, which Flame treats as an EXR sequence throughout (in Batch or Timeline). Then you have an extra selector that allows you to tell Flame which version you would like use.

As you render new EXR sequence versions they’re appended to the OpenClip and become available for selection.

There is some overlap between OpenClip and pattern browsing, since both allow versioning.

OpenClip I believe is also related to the publish workflow, but I don’t use it, so I can’t speak to the specifics.

What is nice is that you can flip through different versions without having to relink files. Great for mattes, intermediate renders, or bringing batch renders back into a timeline.

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Flame API Open Clip Reference

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So when I am closing Flare, is it doing same thing as SAVE DESKTOP?

My current understanding:

  • BATCH ITERATE is making new copied version of currently active Batch Group with sequential number, for example v001 to v002. You can go back to older version inside Flare from ITERATE dropdown list.

  • SAVE DESKTOP saves current Project state as snapshot I can see inside Project folder / catalog. It will make also BACKUP inside catalog_AUTO_BACKUP -folder.

  • Backup Project folder without MEDIA -folder to save some disk space. (Backup to NAS or other disk)

  • MEDIA -folder keeps CACHED media cached by import if CACHE option is enabled. Media coming from NAS will be cached that way, but if MEDIA -folder is emptied for some reason, it will read back again from NAS.

  • MEDIA -folder holds RENDERED IMAGES if you don’t use Write File -node to specifically save to elsewhere.

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When you leave a Flame/Flare session, the Workspace is saved and back-ups are also done.

Alternatively, you could save your Desktop to the Media Library, which is handy is you want to have a snapshot of your work, but this is not mandatory since the application has saved your work when leaving the application. But this is a good way to go back to previous stages of your work.

When a project is done, you can also Archive either the full project or selected content. You have option to include cached media or not. Keep in mind that any generated content like Batch renders or results from Tools are archived even if you deselect the various Include Cache option since they cannot be regenerated, as oppose to Timeline FX cache.

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No, it’s not. That “Save” ( exiting of flame/flare or ctrl + s) it’s not the same than save desktop. It’s quite different.

Although as Stephan says, save desktop to libraries is not mandatory, and flame/flare will show the desktop as it was before exiting flame, for me, and this is what I have always seen, and have always done, it is pretty important to save the desktop in the library, and clean the desktop before exiting flame. It’s a more elaborate way of structuring the project, saving desktops in a structure of libraries, folders, save by tasks, days, versions, etc.

The virtuous circle would be:

work
save the desktop to the library
clear the desktop
exit flame
.
.
start flame
load the selected desktop
work

A very obvious thing for all of us but not so much for those who are starting by themselves and don’t have references to copy workflows. Besides, sooner or later, you will face a very nice thing called “corrupted desktop” and the Juha from the future will be grateful for this advice.

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This is something I am really afraid of. That is exactly why I am here asking questions as you just mentioned, I have no other source to learn from which is based on someone’s experience. Tested and trusted.

I really need to sort this thing straight before something unpleasant happens to my project files.

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FWIW I haven’t done this ever in 26 years of using the software. I used to do dated and timestamped desktops saved regularly into the library, but since 2020 I haven’t even done that and have been fine. Having said this, I’ll probably have a project corrupt itself tomorrow now….

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I archive my work at the end of every day. The entire system could go up in flames (no pun intended) and I will still have all my work.

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What @kily described is a very safe way to work since your Desktop data is saved to the Media Library and ensure that if anybody get to your project and play with your Desktop then you have a back-up somewhere. If you are alone on the workstation then not applicable.

Desktop corruption is something we have not seen in ages and what @hBomb42 describes is quite valid BUT we are never too safe against issues.

All in all, you have many options so experiment with what makes the most sense in your workflow and let us know how things go.

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Corrupted desktop, o desktop who last forever to load because some frame, or cache is missing or corrupted, or same for a batch with a issue with one action with maybe some complicated warp…or maybe some ofx or matchbox… call it whatever. For me is a real and current issue, and not “from the past”. I speak from my own experience.

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Thanks for helping me out with this.

SAVE DESKTOP into LIBRARY workflow, I kind of get it specially doing it each day you modify and in the end of the day you save new version of the DESKTOP to NEW LIBRARY.

This is how I understand currently:

All rendered media are in single location and not duplicate, right? Only my BATCH GROUPS are duplicated and kept in that stage as backup. All media is looked from same location as original.

Iteration per BATCH can be used normally as each DESKTOP SAVE are independent from previous DESKTOP SAVE.

Probably I could save all DESKTOPS into same LIBRARY without separating them for each day library and maybe this is what you guys was talking about, there are multiple ways of keeping things as there are different Flame users.

I’m a bit embarrassed to admit that I’m not very good at this. I know this is something you should know before starting a project, but I’m really trying to get the hang of Flare right now. I don’t want to regret it later and realize that I lost all my data because I didn’t know how to manage my files.

Best

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Have you opened a Support ticket about these issues?