👉 “When Finishing Faster Means Earning Less?”

Hey @AndyMilkis,

First of all, thanks a lot for all the amazing work you put into Logik Live. I’ve been watching these sessions for a while and they’re genuinely helpful. (And Also thank you Jeff.)

While watching your recent video, something really got stuck in my head and I’d love to get your or the community’s opinion on it.

I’m a freelance Flame artist working on a day-rate basis, like many others here. Quite often, I manage to deliver shots faster and at higher quality than expected, sometimes better than artists my clients have worked with before. Clients usually acknowledge that too.

Here’s the issue though: let’s say a complex shot is budgeted for 4 or 5 days, and I manage to finish it in one day with better results. Instead of being rewarded for efficiency, I just get paid for one day.

None of my clients have ever said, “Thanks for the great work, here’s the full 5-day fee.” And honestly, I don’t expect them to, because usually the director and producer are two different people. Directors appreciate the work, but producers, whose job is to keep budgets tight, just pay for the time spent.

So, what would you do in this situation? How do you handle it? Should we price our work based on the value or the time it takes?

Really curious to hear how others approach this, because I’m sure many freelancers have faced the same dilemma.

PS: @Randy, this is for you to see. I wasn’t sure which category to post this under, so I hope it’s okay that I posted it here.

Baran S.

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The time it takes.

”Value” is too variable. I have had easy shots that take much longer than anticipated, and I’ve knocked hard shots out of the park in a few hours.

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As someone who hasn’t freelanced but has been around many freelancers and supervised freelancers my question is Isn’t your booking though for a set number of days? Like you’ve been booked for five days got the really troublesome shot done in one and now they’ve either gotta load you up with more or have you sit on your hands or simply pay you for the booking? I’m confused by this

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I’ve faced that dilemma many times. From my point of view, thinking long term, it’s much better to be honest — and to look honest. If you build a reputation as a good and fast artist, you’ll stand out and earn clients. If you’re just average, you’ll always stay average.

And one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned is that clients aren’t always stupid. The person hiring you might even be an ex-VFX artist who knows perfectly well when you’re trying to pull a fast one on them.

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This!

Even this was a problem with me working as employee at multiple studios in Mumbai.

I was much faster and more efficient in comparison with other people. But if I had only one project lined up, this resulted in that I did the same work in less hours, and clients pay per hour, or even if they pay on project basis they will try to negotiate later, based on the hours that the artist worked. So in the end this was not a good thing for the company. Because this way the company got less money. Other people told me lots of times to work slower, and take some breaks haha. Post producer and director were of course very happy with me..

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There is a good precedent for this question: Commercial Photography

The Old Times

Back in the heyday of photography (pre DSLR revolution), commercial photography was priced by value. It was an industry wide agreement between the photographers and the art buyers on the client side (who back then were specialists, not random marketing assistants) that photos would be priced on usage (value). There were lists, databases, and accepted history on pricing (you can still see remnants of it if you price rights managed images on Getty).

The pricing was pegged by days, geography, audience, medium and brand and a few other factors.

A shot of a piping hot slice of pizza used by a local restaurant in the Sunday newspaper insert would cost $250. That exact same shot (same file) with exclusive rights, used by a national chain would cost $75,000 because of the audience difference. Didn’t matter how much time the photographers spent making it.

It worked, until you had an influx of new photographers with DSLR cameras in hand, who had not come up through the ranks of the industry. They didn’t know and didn’t understand the customs of the industry. In parallel images were increasingly bought different people in companies and placed on share drives, and there were no longer professional art buyers as gate keepers.

So the whole system largely collapsed.

The Counter Narrative

I’ve heard Andy and others tell this countless times: Picasso and the napkin, the photographer and the tourist, and other variations of the same plot:

Picasso draws a picture on napkin. Couple across the table asks for the price. He says $250K. They say, but you drew 5 min on a napkin. He says, yes, but it took me 40 years to learn how to draw like that.

There is no perfect answer, and the answer changes over time, is different for different artists and different markets.

My Experience

  1. First of all, any decision is defensible if you can state your assumptions. Don’t make numbers up. Pick what is a proper day rate for your work, and estimate the numbers a shot takes. That’s your starting point.

  2. Keep track of your time. As we all know, especially in our line of work, sometimes the stars align and you can breeze through a shot, and another time the track will not stick, and it’s a monster, and you take three times a long as you thought.

  3. Use the number of hours it would take you on average to do a shot like this. If you’ve done this long enough and enough shots, and kept track of time (mentally or in notes) you should know the average time.

    Charge the average hours it would take to do this shot. If you got lucky today, take the win, and charge 2 days even if it only took 4hrs (as long as 2 days is your actual average). Other days, the shot turns into a monster and it takes 3 days, but you still charge 2. Trust the data and that it will average out.

    Footnote: if it takes much longer because of unforeseen circumstances, then it’s ok to discuss with the client that your estimate was off, and the price needs to be higher. Example: the client gives you camera tracking data from the MoCo rig, but you find out the data are bad and it needs to be re-tracked (happened to me twice in recent memory).

  4. Ask the client for their budget. I have clients that have specific numbers they use for certain jobs. If they do tell me (and they usually do during booking) I will invoice for that number, even if it usually takes less time.

    As they say, don’t make them think too hard. If that is their budget, they don’t win if you make it cheaper, and in fact you may create problems for them, becaue they may have argued in a production meeting that it would take 2 days (because the Resolve guy took at that long last time), and now you make them look like they didn’t know what they’re talking about.

  5. Do know the value of the work you’re doing, and set your rate accordingly. You don’t want to undercharge consistently relative to the market or you make a lot of other folks unhappy. You are worth your experience, your time, and your tools.

You can defend every decision if you are clear about your assumptions. Then you can argument about the assumptions (this should take x days because of…). If you make things up seemingly randomly, you likely will lose the plot.

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2 things: Did they firm you for 5 days? Then they need to pay you for 5 unless you can find other work.
On the flip side, people who do exceptional work in exceptional time get exceptionally more bookings.

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I know everyone here bills by the day, so I really appreciate you spending some of yours to reply. Thanks a lot for all the insights. I think most of us more or less know what the right answer is, but it’s only natural that there are different perspectives. In the end, good communication between both sides is what really solves most of these situations.

I’m definitely not talking about finishing early and then expecting to be paid for the rest of the booking. Most jobs are booked with some flexibility anyway, since revisions or new requests often come up.

The real issue is what happens after that. Sometimes a producer who isn’t fully confident with timing assumes the next project will take the same short amount of time and starts pushing for unrealistic schedules. That’s when things get messy.

It used to be that we’d sit down and talk through how long the work would actually take before starting. Lately it feels more like “we’ve got this project and this much time, make it work.”

Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to share your thoughts!

Cheers!
Baran