I love this forum!
OK so far I’m 90% there with them going with the Alexa LF. Will I still have issues if they want to push in from a head-to-toe wide to a mid? I’m guessing that will depend on the lens they use. Not too familiar with a standard Alexa shoot.
That sounds like a big push-in. When you consider that your frame is going to be wider than it is tall, to go from extra wide shot to a mid like that might be 50% push-in. If you’re finishing at HD, then you might be fine but if you’re delivering UHD, I’d be worried about it going soft.
I get a lot of material from the Mini LF. I think it’s a really great camera and the Prorez 4x4 should be just fine. You can punch in the equivelent of 230% in respect to HD, and still maintain a minimum 1 to 1 pixel at HD. That said, however, if focus is off just a gnat’s ass . . . ets, it will show badly.
I think it’s fascinating that a bee’s knees are used to measure quality and a gnat’s ass is used to measure distance.
Whilst true, this doesn’t necessarily mean that you can take two shots, punch in 230% on one of them, and they look good next to each other.
The apparent sharpness from a camera and lens happens when it’s all super sampled down the HD from higher res. I’ve never done a big ass blow up/less of a scale down and it not be noticeable.
The only way to tell is to do a test on set on the first take and get everyone to sign off then. Do not let them make this your problem.
Perhaps I didn’t say that properly. An LF image is 4448x3096. To fit that in an HD raster would be to reduce it 43.1654% The inverse of that (what it would be to scale it back up so that the end result is just a center/crop of the original) is 231% or so. I don’t advocate blowing any image up 230% and expecting any quality. Depending on noise, grain, and focus, and other things, a shot that is punched into might stand out quite badly, but technically you have not uprezed your original image. As you say, do a test and see what people are good with. In the world of TV commercials I hear few complaints about image quality on punch ins.
Well I just found out that they are going with the Panasonic GH5. The rational is that it’s a corporate video being streamed and it’s just a talking head with powerpoint type graphics on the screen behind them.
I’ve insisted that they shoot all the sizes they need. I’m not advising on blowups.
Am I right in asking them to shoot to an external recorder that will give me slightly better quality and Prores is also nicer to work with in Flame.
Should I ask for vlog or rec709.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
I would go with an external ProRes recorder and Rec709. Sounds like you have to do a lot in a little amount of time so taking Complicated grading out of the equation will help you.
Also I would say that shooting against a good green BG will help you the most of anything. Get them to use some of that money they’re saving by using a GH5 to rent a stage with a green cyc wall. Or, at the very least, a backdrop far enough back from the talent so there’s no shadows on it
Thanks Greg, Good tips
The green screen they are going with is vinyl and I was given a sample of the type of setup they will do. Very smooth and flat. Here’s a screen shot.
To be hones I’ve keyed with a lot worse that this having RED footage with a shit lot of noise. I’ll be onset to make sure I get the best results. I might even take my Flame on set.
Good luck with it Jag 
Hey Joel, long time no speak. Do I sense a slight undertone of sarcasm. It’s our favourite producer pulling the strings again. Hope you are well.
I think I’ll be needing some noise reduction to help with the keys. I’ll get the producer to buy me NEAT video.
John- Got to let you know, I had a similar green screen edit with G5 footage 2+ years ago. 4K internal recording…don’t remember their settings. It was like using h264 footage for keys. Hair was terrible. I didn’t have Neat. Edit took twice as long as it should have. Use an external recorder.
10bit for corporate, u should be fine
If hair is like the still throughout u should be good
Capture a couple of clean plates of the green screen between takes. Then you can use an IBK style key which could make a lot of the detail work easier.
Also please report back on how it all went. I’m very curious about the prosumer camera + external recorder results.
Will do. Joel pointed me to the matchbox IBK and OMG what a fantastic tool.
So I asked the DP to record to an external recorder and this is what I got back:
“Like I mentioned before, I highly recommend against using them. I find them unreliable in that they often drop frames, fail to record correctly or add additional noise to the image.
"The GH5 records in 10 bit 4K at 400mbps All-Intra H.264 codec. The difference between internal recording and Pro-Res external recording is imperceptible and the unreliability of external recorders makes internal recording a clear winner”
Thought’s anyone?
With that attitude let the DP key it.
My old highschool was recently closed down due to the presence of cancer causing chemicals. These chemicals were not a new arrival; they were used in the CONSTRUCTION of the building. They’ve been there for DECADES.
…AND I TURNED OUT FINE!
The DP is defending a cancerous building because he doesn’t yet have cancer. Just because an H264 hasn’t personally burned him doesn’t mean it’s not a goddamn biohazard of a work format.
This is the sort of DP you get when they shoot with a toy camera.
also, that stat is bullshit PR. I just tested how big 24 10-bit DPX’s are at 4k (of pure color noise). They’re 800 megs. A prores4444xq is 200 megs. There is NO WAY IN HEELLLLLLLLL that the camera is writing a 400meg-per-second h264 file. I’d imagine that what comes off the sensor might be that level of throughput, but it’s not what gets written. Not even close.
you know, unless you get the external recorder.
