PAL is dead

Flame Between Renders
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I dont know why this isnt a bigger topic.

But 25/50 fps is practically dead, no screen except for linear TV that i know of is running at “PAL”
framerates anymore.

Your phone is 60fps, your laptop is 60fps, your desktop is 60fps, everything is 60fps. even in europe…

everytime I see a commercial shot at 25fps on “the internet” everything is stuttering.

is nobody else seeing this?

prime example, nice animation, nice render , totally destroyed by everything stuttering .

instagram doesnt even try to do any kind of sensfull framerate conversion, it all gets turned into 30fps, so even vrr/promotion wont get you anywhere…

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cqw1ctUINQz/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

i keep trying to scream sense into production to leave 25fps behind and do either 24 or 30…

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True, but broadcast in Europe is still 50i.

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yea but … i make 1 tv version that most people watch in SD(because its free) with “true motion” and AI upscaling anyhow …

and 400 “social” and “web” assets.

so if you have to decide on what should get the main attention, in my book thats not broadcast TV anymore… can always do a 50i version but stay (and shoot) 30fps for everything else.

Especially on stuff that doesnt even get broadcasted, which is … the bulk of what I do nowadays, its all… web, social, whatever.

I also was at a friends place with some kind of IP-TV receiver from german telekom , it outputs 60i to his TV :slight_smile:

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Been listening to your Beatles records backwards again, Finn?

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5

i think i am starting to have my brain aligned to dvbt-2 :kissing_heart:

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Lots of markets are making 25fps content and broadcasting in PAL still. Australia and New Zealand are two, as well as the UK. Sure, it’s digital broadcast but it is still PAL and the majority of broadcast channels are still only SD, not HD.

I don’t understand why interlaced pictures are still a thing considering there hasn’t been an interlaced panel created in well over a decade (probably close to 2) but anyway…

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Yea but its becomming a afterthought behind social/Web and thats not PAL 25/50 at all.

Even though it technically is still around and used we should stop shooting 25fps is all I am saying.

Shoot for the primary delivery format, which really should be 30/60 :man_shrugging:

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Conceptually I agree. In a global content economy and no analog distribution and circuitry left, there is little reason not to standardize on a single frame rate to avoid the quality issues of mismatched rates.

Of course if you add politics and national identities into the recipe, unlikely to happen. Look at the Euro.

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The film appreciator in me would love to standardize behind 24fps (no decimals), but the gamer in me would love to standardize at 60fps or higher.

Shame about PAL though . 25fps is my favorite because the math is so easy.

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PAL is definitely not going to be dead anytime soon. We’re still writing checks in the US, and y’all are still spelling Color with a U so buckle up @finn.

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@andy_dill We could do 24 / 48 / 96 to keep everyone happy and the math easy.

24 - film
48 - tv
96 - games

Any conversion just relies on frame duplication or averaging, no fractional frame time stretch / optical flow. Of course the motion blur would still be based on the acquisition frame rate.

My only hesitation would be all the extra storage and processing for 48/96. In games the renders are real-time, for the rest it’s extra frames on disk, extra frames in every single stage of processing, roto, tracking, etc.

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Prod: “We shot this in 8K so we can crop in for social media”

me: - “Cool we should also do a framerate conversion so it doesnt stutter for said social media”

prod “We dont have money for that its just social media” .

:question::heart:

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The target audience doesn’t even recognize their UHD-TV shows 720p. Why should they recognize and be annoyed by shuttering?

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exactly.

Those people watch full features in SD with commercial breaks.

:exploding_head:

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My favorite…letterboxed SD playing on an HD monitor.

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We’re in the middle of a show for Disney that was shot at 25, so I doubt it is dead.

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I don’t understand this mixing of concepts between fps (25) and PAL as a broadcast format that I’m reading here. :eyes:

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Its more “Pal framerates vs ntsc framerates” this obv has nothing to do with analoge PAL transmission systems :rofl: that stuff is looong dead.

“Ntsc framerates” have won because the internet

But then again I dont mean 23.976 that stuff is mad.

24/30/60/120 … perfectly fine :grin:

Adding to that: There is also really no reason to even deal with fixed framerates anymore, VRR is comming :kissing_heart:

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Ok, but why do you want work 16% more per second, tracking, rotoscoping…, ? :grin: … and 60fps (or 50), oh god, what a nightmare.

Seriously, the problem is conversions, or bad conversions, like the ones you posted (what a botch job). For short jobs I’ve always been a fan of taking a sequence frame by frame, and yes, end up with slightly different durations and compensate in other ways. Otherwise, there are now good tools to generate fluent tw (not just in flame and our beloved twml).

Since it’s a standard electrical thing, it’s simply an unsolvable problem that will never change, so I don’t think it’s worth getting upset about it.

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“The imperial measurement system is dead. We should design everything for metric.”

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