Action 3d Text + Colour Management confusion

Flame Flame Questions
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1

I have a project set up for Aces.
The source video is Log3G10/REDWideGamutRGB.
Destination is Rec709

I need to create 3d Text within Action, but i cannot figure out how to apply a gradient to the front texture on the 3dText, and have the colours look anywhere close to correct.
I have tried adding ClrMgt node and going through all the transforms and trying different ones, but nothing is even close to acceptable.

I have tried creating the grad in various colourspaces (aces / log3g10 / rec709) but i’m just getting more confused. I thought Aces was supposed to simplify things?

Is this even possible?

2

I am not going to pretend I know the answer. The problem with this is you need it to look acceptable/correct.

I can point you in the direction of a discussion that might help.

Converting Artwork to Aces CG for comping

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3

thanks @PlaceYourBetts …tried the solutions on that page and whilst i’ve finally got the shot done, its taken a day to complete a simple packshot that would normally take three minutes! It would probably have taken even longer without that other thread!

i can’t help myself…rant warning:

The number of hoops and nodes you have to jump through just to get your colours to look right from one node to the next is way beyond stupid.

And then to have a system that shows it looking perfect on the broadcast monitor then render out a completely wrong wildly inacurate and unusable video is simply mad.

Surely there should be an option in Flame to say forget the timeline, just render out every shot using the exact same setting used to send the shots to the broadcast monitor. The monitor is rec709, my render needs to be rec709…why are you rendering some shots perfectly and some wrong, whilst playing them all back off the timeline accurately?

aaaaarrrrrrggghhhh!
Never using Aces ever again. Legacy for me.

4

I think this is where the Viewing Transform comes in handy. If you set up your rules correctly or used aces preset, applying a viewing transform will transform it to what you are viewing. So in this case Rec709.

5

Only works if every shot in the timeline is the same. What i mean is playback can handle varying colour spaces, but render cannot…why?

6

I guess this has something to do with the active colour management feature that enables automatic viewing LUT switching. I think that this is an excellent feature and one reason for diligent tagging of all clips but for some it is Flame overstepping the mark. Doing hidden things in the background can make things less obvious.

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7

Don’t forget that with ACES you have to decide what something is, what that something ought to look like on my device and when exporting you have to decide “who is this for and what do they want?” So, viewing something correctly must be separated entirely from “making something correctly.”

Sounds like you need gap effect on top of your timeline that matches your viewing rules. You’re like 3 clicks away from having it sorted.

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8

I have sometimes the same issue when for example I have a timeline with graded Rec709 footage and I have to insert an ungraded shot or a lineair cg render in between and send it out as a work in progress.

if you can see them all correctly in broadcast monitor / viewer, you should be able to also render them correctly. For example by placing a colourmanagement node on an empty
adjustment layer as top layer of your timeline. Set this to viewing transform.
this should ‘transform’ all shots below it, even if they are from different colourspaces.

Another way is to choose these same settings in your export preset, under advanced options by enabeling ‘Use Lut’.

Screenshot 2021-08-17 at 22.31.37
Screenshot 2021-08-17 at 22.31.371298×326 69.5 KB

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9

Interesting! Hadn’t thought of a gap layer above all with a transform on.

Will give that a try tomorrow

Thanks

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10

Nice. You’re not that far off. Report back!

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11

There is a defect in 2022 and 2022.1 Update that forces you to manually toggle the Same as Front button inside Timeline FX Action > Setup Menu > Rendering Tab > Colour Management section for the proper colour space to be applied.

If you do not do this then the Colour Space for your segment will be the same as the Sequence’s first frame.

Could it be what is happening to you?

fred

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12

it might be, Fred. I know i haven’t toggled the button you mentioned. More investigation is needed when i get chance.

thanks

13

Using a View Transform on a Gap layer seems to fix the inconsistencies during export when there are varying colourspaces in a timeline…so thanks to all who suggested it.

The other problem of rec 709 graphic templates working with camera raw footage is just a vast timesuck, trying to come up with a solution closest to what i need…seems varying combo’s of colour management nodes throughout the batch coupled with CC nodes to bring the rec709 back to approximately the right gamma and contrast are the best solution.

14

I have come to the conclusion that if you are going to be working in a high dynamic range (camera raw or scene linear) get ready for some colour management gymnastics.

You are never going to be in the right colourspace for all tasks.
Helpful Videos on Color

I think this is where ACES can be helpful. Imagine trying to get all of your camera raw into a common colour space without it!

It feels way harder than it should because we are not used to doing this much gymnastics. Convert all footage to scene linear for blur and maths compositing. Bring it back to log for tracking and grain. Back to linear and then somersault and land nicely in rec.709 for delivery.

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15

Playback will switch what view transform is applied to the monitor footage on the fly. It works cos there is only one colorspace at a time.

This won’t work in a comp because you are combining multiple color spaces, so you have to unify them before combining them.

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16

I get there are different colourspaces on different clips, i was referring to exporting…why cant it use the same method to export that it uses to playback?

17

Ah. Yeah. My apologies. I get burned by that as well.

“Why is your comp super dark on shot 4?” the producer politely asks me.

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18

Been there…got the tshirt!

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19

The gap effect works when using Same as source?

You’d think you could then apply this as a LUT on export but from the export does it consider the single colourspace of your edit as the source?

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21

Yes…been doing this today. Gap fx with view transform (i think!) applied across entire timeline then exported aces timeline as rec709 without any further mucking about in the export settings.