Have a project that has US + EU shoot days. Final project delivery is 23.98 for US market. What would be the best workflow for capturing native FPS per location (23.98 for US, 25fps for EU) to avoid head aches in post?
shoot 23.98 in both places
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That would have been my plan, but EU DP is saying shooting 23.98fps in EU will cause issues with light flicker
European power is 50Hz.
Obviously I can’t speak for your situation, and I certainly don’t like telling a dp their business, but I’ve been working on a big job that was shot in Slovenia and Greece. The cameras were 3 different Arri’s, RED, iPhone and 16mm film. It was studio and location, inside and out. It was all shot at 23.976 and 24. There’s no flicker, even inside large sports venues. For what it’s worth, as long as there’s no sync sound, when I get it I just run 25 at 23.98. Avid (and maybe premier) auto-tw it, so I keep an eye out for that, but for short shots in tv spots, no one knows the difference, so I don’t really think mixed frame rates are a big deal.
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All comes down to audio sync. I’d shoot 25 and 23.98 respectively and pitch sync audio if needs be for “25 at 24” playback.
So you run the 25fps at 24fps and avoid time warping the images. Audio design can make short work of that change.
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Indeed, I wouldn’t sweat the frame rate issue. It’s not that hard to overcome, and if there is no sync sound, it’s nearly invisible. Let the DP shoot at 25 in EU and 23.976 in US.
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This dp probably never shot in Europe (or never has shot 23.976 in europe…) this whole this is a misunderstood thing from 40 years ago.
I shoot 30fps all the time in EU , I shoot 24 fps in the EU as well, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IF THE LIGHT FLICKER FREQUENCY IS 50hz?!?
first of all → LEDs arent 50hz, they are all over the place and dimmed by different methods but usually extremely fast. they can be problematic with PWM and rolling shutter on the camera no matter where you are
Computer displays run at 60hz pretty much globaly, tvs at 50hz but then they do so many backlight shenanigans that you cant really call this 50hz sync rate either
but now comes the kicker , the FPS doesnt actually matter at all , what matters is the shutter time. lets say you have a oldschool bulb, which is super hard to find nowadays, and it flickers at 50hz and your camera runs at 24fps with a 180deg shutter that 1/48 … so now you just turn the shutter to 1/50 or 172.8 deg and BOOM you get exactly the same time of exposure you would have gotten at 25fps .
I have done this MANY times with many different cameras, even most german movies are shot at 24fps with a 172.8deg shutter…
Lots of holywood movies are shot in germany , they dont bring 60hz transformers 
Idk who comes up with this, iPhone literally shoots 30/60fps by default also for everyone in europe and we dont have flicker issues.
If the DP wants more proof they can pay me to walk around a european city of her choosing with a alexa 35.
do yourself a favour and keep everything 23.9 FPS if stuff flickers change shutter speed like you would anyways, if you cant remove flicker by changing shutter you need to find the lightsource that is problematic and remove/cover it…
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I think this is the right answer, but not the practical answer. If he shoots it at 23.98 and it flickers, it’s going to be your fault, not his, in the eyes of the client. I’ve been down this road.
it wont, ive done it so many times.
Commercial DPs are just scared because they havent done it, ask any feature DP in europe and they will laugh.
you need to check for flicker even in the US or if you shoot 25fps in europe, you watch your waveform and have the DIT check for flicker , on every shoot i go to we do this and its usually fine, its mostly streetlamps etc that flicker but again they usually dont flicker at 1/50 anyhow… because LEDs and PWN dimming
It will if he doesn’t shoot it right. And face it, DP’s are notorious for never being wrong. They are frequently the most stubborn and difficult to deal with on set.
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"In my opinion shooting 23.9 in europe is a none issue as the flicker depends on shutter speed and not on the framerate, so the shutter has to be adjusted, usually to 1/50s or 172.8 degrees at 23.976 fps.
Flicker should always be checked for by the DIT , if for whatever reason you have to use 25fps, its acceptable as we can slightly slow it down to run at 23.9, this however only works when there is no sync sound needed, it is however always prefferable to flickering.
Please consult your DIT as well to get a second opinion, I wont be held responsible for flickering footage and deflickering will be a added cost
Please give it a try, we would love to get everything as 23.9 to keep things simple in post.
Thank you, let me know if you have any questions"
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yea always cover your a**
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Never underestimate the stupidity of the client. But your memo reads well. @ocaiden I would love to hear what decision gets made.
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This is a pretty deep resource, left to us by the late, great Geoff Boyle(R.I.P)
What kind of light this DP is talking about? What camera are you shooting on (every camera is approaching to this issue little different)? Simplest answer is shoot some tests and ask DITs.
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Thanks all for the great info. Will report back on final outcome.
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This turned out to be a big, fat nothing burger.
Spoke with DP again, mentioned again shooting 23.98 in EU and adjusting shutter angle, they agreed it should be fine, wouldl keep an eye on the lights for flicker etc
All in all, an exercise in not much. We shot with no lighting issues etc
Thank you all for the sanity check!
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@ocaiden - did it come with a drink and fries?
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yay.
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